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Race Face in MEC details - Actual SKUs!
by brule
Posted: Oct 28, 2009
Race Face has just sent us the actual SKU's that you will see in MEC stores across Canada. This is in response to all the feedback from riders wanting to know what exactly they will be selling in MEC stores.
Hard Goods
- Ride, Evolve, Respond
- Turbine and Race Chainrings
- Grips
Armour- Rally FR, Zero, Dig and DIY womens (all in grey only)
Clothing-Men’s: Atlas jersey, Canuck jersey (short sleeved only), V02 shorts, Buzz shorts, Atlas gloves, Evolve Gloves
Women’s: Blossom jersey, Shoots jersey, DIY short, 3 over 4 pant, DIY glove
Hard Goods
- Ride, Evolve, Respond
- Turbine and Race Chainrings
- Grips
Armour- Rally FR, Zero, Dig and DIY womens (all in grey only)
Clothing-Men’s: Atlas jersey, Canuck jersey (short sleeved only), V02 shorts, Buzz shorts, Atlas gloves, Evolve Gloves
Women’s: Blossom jersey, Shoots jersey, DIY short, 3 over 4 pant, DIY glove
Dear Canadian Dealer,
As many of you are now aware, Race Face has recently made the decision to sell products to MEC in Canada. We want to take this opportunity to explain our reasoning for doing this and to separate fact from fiction concerning this decision.
Firstly, by selling products to MEC this does not mean we are decreasing our commitment to you, the Canadian IBD. In fact, the truth is quite the opposite. We are a Canadian based company that has been in partnership with Canadian IBDs for seventeen years. This will not change. In very frank terms, we decided to add MEC as a customer because the distribution landscape in Canada is changing concerning the selling of bicycles and bicycling related products. MEC has recently made an increased commitment to their cycling business and we believe that they represent one additional sales channel for us to ultimately sell our products to the Canadian cycling consumer. It is really that simple. For us to continue to evolve, and even exist, as a business, like you, we have to change with the times. That is all we are trying to do by selling to MEC - nothing more, nothing less.
It should be noted that many top brands already support and sell their products through MEC, and as MEC’s bike program grows this will continue to evolve as they build new partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers.
Additionally, we are aware that some of you believe that MEC has an advantage versus other Canadian businesses because of their Co-Operative status. To further show our commitment to you, the IBD's, we will offer a specific discount to address this issue. Place a reasonably sized order with us and we will provide a further discount over and above any booking discounts. Call it the “level tax”
discount. Details will be released shortly.
Also, we want you to know that MEC is only buying select skus from our line. We have many skus that MEC will not carry. Please contact us if you would like to know the exact skus MEC will stock; we are happy to share that information with you.
Lastly, when considering your future business with Race Face, please remember that we are proud to be a B.C. based company for the last seventeen years. Our foot print in Canada is still very large as we directly employ 50+ people in our New Westminster office. We still manufacture market leading products in B.C. such as Atlas and Next cranks. In fact, despite the recent tough economic times, the demand for our product is strong and we have just added an additional five people in our manufacturing department. We are a Canadian based company that is committed to our operations in Canada and to supporting the Canadian IBD.
We understand for some Canadian IBDs that our selling to MEC is an emotionally charged issue. Our hope, and goal, is that by providing a commitment to the IBD in the Canadian market place, we have addressed the majority of your concerns.
As noted previously, we will release details shortly on our “level tax” discount and our 2010 booking program. Please contact us directly to place an order.
If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to call or email me or our Sales Manager, Marcel Jakob, at extension 226 – marcelj@raceface.com.
Thank-you in advanced for your continued support.
Craig Pollack
President
raceface.com
As many of you are now aware, Race Face has recently made the decision to sell products to MEC in Canada. We want to take this opportunity to explain our reasoning for doing this and to separate fact from fiction concerning this decision.
Firstly, by selling products to MEC this does not mean we are decreasing our commitment to you, the Canadian IBD. In fact, the truth is quite the opposite. We are a Canadian based company that has been in partnership with Canadian IBDs for seventeen years. This will not change. In very frank terms, we decided to add MEC as a customer because the distribution landscape in Canada is changing concerning the selling of bicycles and bicycling related products. MEC has recently made an increased commitment to their cycling business and we believe that they represent one additional sales channel for us to ultimately sell our products to the Canadian cycling consumer. It is really that simple. For us to continue to evolve, and even exist, as a business, like you, we have to change with the times. That is all we are trying to do by selling to MEC - nothing more, nothing less.
It should be noted that many top brands already support and sell their products through MEC, and as MEC’s bike program grows this will continue to evolve as they build new partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers.
Additionally, we are aware that some of you believe that MEC has an advantage versus other Canadian businesses because of their Co-Operative status. To further show our commitment to you, the IBD's, we will offer a specific discount to address this issue. Place a reasonably sized order with us and we will provide a further discount over and above any booking discounts. Call it the “level tax”
discount. Details will be released shortly.
Also, we want you to know that MEC is only buying select skus from our line. We have many skus that MEC will not carry. Please contact us if you would like to know the exact skus MEC will stock; we are happy to share that information with you.
Lastly, when considering your future business with Race Face, please remember that we are proud to be a B.C. based company for the last seventeen years. Our foot print in Canada is still very large as we directly employ 50+ people in our New Westminster office. We still manufacture market leading products in B.C. such as Atlas and Next cranks. In fact, despite the recent tough economic times, the demand for our product is strong and we have just added an additional five people in our manufacturing department. We are a Canadian based company that is committed to our operations in Canada and to supporting the Canadian IBD.
We understand for some Canadian IBDs that our selling to MEC is an emotionally charged issue. Our hope, and goal, is that by providing a commitment to the IBD in the Canadian market place, we have addressed the majority of your concerns.
As noted previously, we will release details shortly on our “level tax” discount and our 2010 booking program. Please contact us directly to place an order.
If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to call or email me or our Sales Manager, Marcel Jakob, at extension 226 – marcelj@raceface.com.
Thank-you in advanced for your continued support.
Craig Pollack
President
raceface.com
199 Comments
- + 0
Stainer
(Oct 28, 2009 at 17:10)
I'm confused.... So their still selling stuff in LBS right?
Yes, LBSs can buy product directly from Raceface. This just means that you can also buy a select set of RF products at the big store MEC.
Okay, I'm just an American... but what is the IBD and MEC? Sounds like the difference between selling parts at a bike shop or at WalMart. Can someone explain?
IBD= Independent Bike Dealer... I assume... like LBS.
Difference between a Bike Shop and Walmart? Well Walmart is a bane of human rights everywhere. Walmart encourages the continuation of exploitative labour, they do nothing to better such problems. Bike shops, or at least my LBS, look to sell products that don't encourage a cycle of impoverishment and are, as often as possible, Canadian or American made.
Oh and you're not "just an American"... you made it sound like it was a bad thing.
Difference between a Bike Shop and Walmart? Well Walmart is a bane of human rights everywhere. Walmart encourages the continuation of exploitative labour, they do nothing to better such problems. Bike shops, or at least my LBS, look to sell products that don't encourage a cycle of impoverishment and are, as often as possible, Canadian or American made.
Oh and you're not "just an American"... you made it sound like it was a bad thing.
Mountain Equipment Co-op. The place is mint for anything you need outside your house. And bikes coming in 2010! Wee!
its a small chain(13 stores) but its really widely known in Canada and their website has more products then I've seen on any other outdoors website. and their products are noticely cheaper then they are anywere else
I know it's well known in Canada, but to an American asking, he certainly wouldn't know. And I think I posted at the same time as the 2 people before me so I didn't know it would become redundant.
think about it though, they wont even be selling atlas components, which are all I (and im sure many others on this site) are really interested in. and besides most people who will be dropping any large amount of money on these things will probably have a bikeshop that they are somewhat dedicated to. I really dont think its going to be much of a problem for the little guys.
What happens to the shops that depend strictly on lamberts for race face. and if they have no relation ship with raceface either
Then they'll have to go back to not stocking it, I guess. Race Face has only been in Lambert for like 2 years, so it shouldn't change that much for most shops. Most would've had existing setups directly with RF before that, I'd assume.
It is unfortunate for all local bike stores they will be forced now to sell at co-op prices and match margins throughout the entire line which will limit the amount of Race Face product your LBS will carry.
I think it is a poor move on Race Face's part and they should have figured out a way to help sell more product through their LBS stores instead of selling to MEC wrecking the Canadian market for all Race Face dealers !
I think it is a poor move on Race Face's part and they should have figured out a way to help sell more product through their LBS stores instead of selling to MEC wrecking the Canadian market for all Race Face dealers !
Before LBSs bought from a distributor that took it's share. Now LBSs can buy direct from MEC and possibly make or split that chunk that was reserved for the distributor. Even at a lower consumer price, the LBSs could make the same or more by cutting out the middle man.
Do bike shops actually make that much from parts sales? I am aware that the markup is very high, but I figure they probably do pretty low numbers given the markup. i.e. one could buy a new fork for $1300 or buy a bike on sale with a similar fork for double that. I have always figured they do more new bike sales and service amounts than parts especially here in Canada where parts prices are always more than the US for some reason even when the dollar has been par and one can order from online shops and avoid the markup.
Most shops do make more on whole bikes sales rather than just parts. The thing I'm not looking forward to is paying the price the MEC sets... I've never seen anyone buy DH or FR or even XC parts from MEC. It's mostly just people trying to get a cheap deal (personal opinion). And if you go into MEC and approach the counters asking the dealer if this Crank set will work on your DH bike, chances are they would have never heard of that company and sell you the wrong style or wrong BB size.
Bike shops do not buy Race Face from a distributor they buy direct from Race Face as will MEC. MEC will sell for a very slim margin because they are a co-op. Your local LBS will not buy from MEC they are not a distributor. I have worked in the outdoor industry for 15 years and have seen what happens when companies open MEC. The LBS gets hurt and the public gets better discount and less service it is unfortunate this is the way our society is going.
In fairness to MEC's service they offer the best warranty (in my opinion) in the entire outdoor industry - lifetime on any product to meet your expectations. They also are offering bike service at their Calgary store - so they should have trained mechanics who can help with your parts purchase so you don't get the wrong bb etc. and if you do you can take it back under the warranty. I have had many a headache with purchasing parts - including poor service, warranty hassles, not having a receipt etc - from bikeshops and am looking forward to buying RaceFace products at MEC where my purchases stay on file. Plus MEC is environmentally conscious is many ways that most retailers don't even think about which I am happy to support. Maybe LBSs will be forced to step up their game, this is not a bad thing and as the article says RaceFace is a business just like LBSs and they need to look out for themselves.
most canadian LBS's get race face through a supplier, and when race face announced its MEC deal lots of canadian suppliers (ie lambert) dropped all product, so u will see much less Race Face products if any in LBS's this year
oh please, they're only selling chainrings, grips, armour and clothing. all the good stuff's still in bike shops!
full evolve, ride, and respond lines to. Pretty much just not the Atlas and Diabolous lineup. I am a little frustrated by it, but mabey it will work out fine. At least they are keeping the great stuff for the shops.
ahh, they seem to have changed the article to clarify that, before it looked like they said they were going to sell 5 lines of chainrings :O
Actually, the margin of profit on complete bikes is so thin that shops make diddly squat - whereas the mark up on components & merchandise is MUCH higher. Ask anyone who works in a shop.
that is true, markup on parts is usually around 50% and bikes are around 20-35% with sales making them much lower.
I think many riders will have a bitter taste after reading this article.RaceFace and its excellent rep I feel are in danger of a not so wise venture...GOODLUCK.
true but it may also encourage competition in our market lowering the prices of bike stuff, which are ridiculously high right now.
i have to tell you i was not pleased when the local rep for a certain company came in and told us they were droping raceface for these reasons. Before i say if this is a good move or not id like to see what raceface brings to the table for the local bike retailers.
Working at a shop has been getting interesting as of late with the online purchasing of major items. With whole companys jumping there lines to stores like MEC it makes me ask this question to those who arnt buying from there LBS and are instead choosing this path or online. What are you going to do when it breaks and there isnt an LBS around to help you. Im not a disgruntled shop owner or anything, infact i can make more money working elsewhere, but its an honest question. Small shops cannot survive on labor work alone, and since everyone thinks they deserve a discount on labor from the shop on the stuff they didnt buy there simply because they ride, that cuts in even more. Sorry about the rant, but really people, this is only going to get worse if this trend continues
Working at a shop has been getting interesting as of late with the online purchasing of major items. With whole companys jumping there lines to stores like MEC it makes me ask this question to those who arnt buying from there LBS and are instead choosing this path or online. What are you going to do when it breaks and there isnt an LBS around to help you. Im not a disgruntled shop owner or anything, infact i can make more money working elsewhere, but its an honest question. Small shops cannot survive on labor work alone, and since everyone thinks they deserve a discount on labor from the shop on the stuff they didnt buy there simply because they ride, that cuts in even more. Sorry about the rant, but really people, this is only going to get worse if this trend continues
I here what you are saying. However, do you think I should pay as much as double for a product to keep an LBS in business. It's cheaper to just have to buy the odd thing twice than to support an LBS.
So maybe the LBS should cut there margin of profit drastically, I work in the retail and wholesale industry and I was outraged when the majority of my LBS gave a a quote for a part that was nearly twice what I could get it off the internet for still brand new let alone even trying pinkbike or anything. The only way for a LBS to survive now is to lower there profit margin to compete with online sales, it might be a cruel thing to say but even we have had to do it ourselves to compete with online retailers. Its a thing of the future people dont care about the long run they care about getting what they need right now for the best possible price. As for bike shops getting hounded for discounts on labor and stuff well when you can take you car into a mechanic and get charged the same labor rate I would want some kind of a discount. Why should a LBS get exclusive dibs on a product if all they are going to do is gouge people on it? It doesnt make people want to buy the product which means sales will drop for Race Face which will lead them to look at other methods of selling there goods. Smaller overhead and more frequent inventory turnarounds would keep operating costs down and essentially allow lower pricing which would result in more sales and with word of mouth it would get passed around, its elementary business tactics. Take it from a person who works of a company that profits millions of dollars a month, cause thats how I learned.
then your speaking about completely different business models, if your making millions of dollars a month then you have the extra cash to bring in larger volume inventory. as for margin, you realize, just like you, a business had tax, bills, rent and employee's to pay. Welcome to a small retail business, and educate yourself before you make a generalized point, as for online shops, as i said, with low employee numbers, not having to pay to keep a store front open (ie rent), they can slash costs and they order in greater volume
Really not to stoked on raceface making this move, its going to affect already struggling shops harshly. Rf has been a staple product for local shops, I hope it stays that way but personally I can't support a company that would sell out shops like that.
Shimano time.....ugggg
Shimano time.....ugggg
You can buy shimano at MEC, heck you can buy sram, shimano, blackspire, at REI, which is much more massive than MEC, and is a coop too.
Mec also only stocks low end stuff from those brands, and its not at a better price.....I really hope its the same with raceface
And fsa/gravity isn't even comparable on any level to raceface
And fsa/gravity isn't even comparable on any level to raceface
the low end stuff that makes the LBS money. and my FSA/gravity headsets dont leak grease when properly installed and my Gravity cranks dont twist even though they still manage to be light
Fsa makes a great headset, especially at the price.
But rf cranks are lighter, stronger, and way more durable
Seriously though, no headset should "leak grease".....
But rf cranks are lighter, stronger, and way more durable
Seriously though, no headset should "leak grease".....
RaceFace has basically chosen sides and is betting they will sell more at MEC than they will lose by all the local shops delisting them because of the different set of rules MEC operates under.
They are forgetting who got them to where they are now.
If I was a local shop owner I would delist them because they will be unable to compete on price.
They are forgetting who got them to where they are now.
If I was a local shop owner I would delist them because they will be unable to compete on price.
MEC is a great company that likes to make quality gear accessible to people who want to enjoy the outdoors but cant afford the boutique price-point. They aren't out to stick it to the LBS and neither is RaceFace. They'll only carry a limited RF line (as they do Blackspire, Avid, Crank bros, Conti., etc. etc.). The highest quality, and therefor most expensive and sought after RF kit will still only be available through LBSs.
Keep buying from your LBS, the price difference wont be too much, but it might be enough to get some people some quality gear that will turn them onto our sport. I think it'll create more sales in general as new customers seek better kit at LBSs.
RaceFace isn't selling out or turning traitor, they're just spreading the love.
Keep buying from your LBS, the price difference wont be too much, but it might be enough to get some people some quality gear that will turn them onto our sport. I think it'll create more sales in general as new customers seek better kit at LBSs.
RaceFace isn't selling out or turning traitor, they're just spreading the love.
I think the reaction of most of you guys is too emotional. First, you do not have to compete against MEC since they are just listing a limited amount of skus. It is an opportunity for the LBS to choose other skus and be really distinct from a mass sport merch like MEC.
Secondly, RF is offering an additionnal discount to their dealers so it is a great opportunity for shops that are really willing to increase their sales and total $ instead of being over-focused on margin per items.
Finally, what do you guys want more from Race Face? They are a local companie that is looking to increase their sales and profit by capitalizing on a unique retail opportunity in Canada. On top of that, they clearly show that they care and a aware of the possible problem by providing 1) a discount to their dealers and 2) limiting the skus at MEC.
It is obviously unfortunate for the LBS, but I think they have to step up and make this situation a clear opportunity to grow their business with Race Face.
Secondly, RF is offering an additionnal discount to their dealers so it is a great opportunity for shops that are really willing to increase their sales and total $ instead of being over-focused on margin per items.
Finally, what do you guys want more from Race Face? They are a local companie that is looking to increase their sales and profit by capitalizing on a unique retail opportunity in Canada. On top of that, they clearly show that they care and a aware of the possible problem by providing 1) a discount to their dealers and 2) limiting the skus at MEC.
It is obviously unfortunate for the LBS, but I think they have to step up and make this situation a clear opportunity to grow their business with Race Face.
Oh come on, you're from INDIANA! This doesn't affect you at all. Nor does it affect Canadian LBSs. Again: Not all RF kit will be sold at MEC, AND LBSs get adjusted pricing.
All this does is expand the market, increase sales, and make our sport more accessible.
All this does is expand the market, increase sales, and make our sport more accessible.
Santa Cruz sells at Huck and Roll (backcountry.com is the parent company). Do you boycott them as well???
it may be emotional in a way, but look at it this way, for those of us who work at shops this is a huge blow. It doesnt matter how its marketed towards us. Fact is this is just a dip in the pond of what the industry seem to be moving towards, and that is away from LBS's. With the volume discount online stores are selling with, shops are losing out, and if more companys start selling there lower end stuff to larger co-ops and stores that can sell for lower prices since they can buy and ship in volumes LBS's cannot then how are the small guys expected to keep up?.
Thats awesome that we can get at higher end stuff that MEC cannot, but seriously, F*** there high end stuff. you might sell 1 high end crank for every 10 of its lower end counterpart. that goes the same for any part on the bike. that 10 cranksets is where a bike shop makes its money to buy the tools to work on you high end brakes and specialized hubs not the 1 big ticket item. This isnt just a raceface issue, this is an industry wide issues as I've stated. For every item sold on the internet or one of these stores the LBS and is distributors make less which makes prices go up to try and stay ahead.
Now you can say im just saying all this because i work in a shop, but as i also said a few posts ago I could make much more money elsewhere. I choose to work where i do because of the people and the passion i have for the sport. Seeing it go off in a bad direction makes me shake my head
Thats awesome that we can get at higher end stuff that MEC cannot, but seriously, F*** there high end stuff. you might sell 1 high end crank for every 10 of its lower end counterpart. that goes the same for any part on the bike. that 10 cranksets is where a bike shop makes its money to buy the tools to work on you high end brakes and specialized hubs not the 1 big ticket item. This isnt just a raceface issue, this is an industry wide issues as I've stated. For every item sold on the internet or one of these stores the LBS and is distributors make less which makes prices go up to try and stay ahead.
Now you can say im just saying all this because i work in a shop, but as i also said a few posts ago I could make much more money elsewhere. I choose to work where i do because of the people and the passion i have for the sport. Seeing it go off in a bad direction makes me shake my head
Read my above post about pricing point out of a LBS compared to online retailers if you cant compete with that, then please tell me why I should pay 150% markup for the same price just to have someone hand it to me at a shop? In my opinion my money looks better in my pocket then yours. Whats the extra incentive to pay the marked up price from a shop besides the fact you dont have to wait a week to have it shipped to you? Just like MTV killed music and radio the internet retailers will kill the LBS in a crappy economy people will do whatever they can to survive, this is a prime example.
So next time you or someone you know gets laid off because of product out sourcing because its cheaper for someone somewhere else to do it i shouldn't expect you to be to upset is that right? its the same thing. Hope you dont have any mechanical issues that stump you if your bike has an issue or need help with warranty if your LBS is gone.
I don't know what lbs you are dealing with, but having been employed by and owning shops for the last 20 years I can honestly say that the profit margins ,most shops are dealing with are quit small. I don't really care for MEC carrying the bikes and stuff, but nothing anybody can do about it.
i work in a shop and i under stand what rf is doing it's all about the money but don't you think that in a few years or even in a few month that rf won't just start selling all there products to mec because most shops have stoped carrying rf products rf screwed over the canadian distributer that they had a contract with till the end of 2010 so why won't they just screw over the lbs
well, from the arguments you have made it looks pretty doom and gloom for lbs - internet companies aren't going to stop selling and very few consumers will pay substantially more to buy products from the lbs. either lbs and distributors like lambert will have to lower the mark-up or they'll be put out of business. do you see another solution other than manufacturers continuing to give lbs a pseudo-monopoly on bike parts sales, because it looks like those days are over?
and to 2453, if the shops don't want to carry rf products that mec doesn't that is their doing - not rf's or mec's, they are the ones with the power to order.
and to 2453, if the shops don't want to carry rf products that mec doesn't that is their doing - not rf's or mec's, they are the ones with the power to order.
and where are they to make the cuts? rent? bills? employee's? LBS's for the most part simply cant order the volume that the online stores are, thats how they keep their prices down. Pity if the LBS's are gone and you need your fork rebuilt and dont have the means to do it
ok quinn-39 we use to sell iron horce and gt now you can buy them at sporting goods stores here and then people come in the shop and want you to match their prices wich bike shops cant cause the sporting goods store buy in larg volumes and then sell the bikes for about 75.00 more then our cost and that = local bike shops going out of busness
What sporting goods stores are you referring too? I know SportCheck sells IH, but even then they seem only to sell the bottom models... apart from those I've only seen a single Sunday (the FR outfitted one... it's got Totems and gold SAS rims) in a SportCheck... and it's been there for a year.
I don't disagree with you... box stores selling shoddily assembled big-name bikes is a bad thing. But MEC isn't a box. They don't have a ton of stores and they DONT SELL BIKES. They sell a limited line of parts (chains, chainrings, pumps, jerseys, tires, a few pedals etc.) and they sell quality kit. They dont discourage people from entering the sport (as a bad experience with a box store bike may), their influence likely gets more people hooked on riding.
MEC isnt out to get the little guy, they arent so big themselves. Oh, and again; they dont sell RaceFace's entire line. Riders will continue to go to the LBS for that. Oh and the 'price break' thing... I dunno if it's BS... but supposedly its there for the LBSs.
End rant (for now)
I don't disagree with you... box stores selling shoddily assembled big-name bikes is a bad thing. But MEC isn't a box. They don't have a ton of stores and they DONT SELL BIKES. They sell a limited line of parts (chains, chainrings, pumps, jerseys, tires, a few pedals etc.) and they sell quality kit. They dont discourage people from entering the sport (as a bad experience with a box store bike may), their influence likely gets more people hooked on riding.
MEC isnt out to get the little guy, they arent so big themselves. Oh, and again; they dont sell RaceFace's entire line. Riders will continue to go to the LBS for that. Oh and the 'price break' thing... I dunno if it's BS... but supposedly its there for the LBSs.
End rant (for now)
i for one will not be buying anything from race face as long as their products are in MEC.
the one thing about MEC is they have substantial buying power and because of this, they cut out the local distributor and buy direct from the company.
i used to work in wholesale and MEC bought our products through a US buying office so they didn't have to buy it from us. did this bother me? not really. what really bothered me is that my other customers in the general area couldn't afford to sell our product line at MEC prices so they just didn't carry them.
MEC's recent expansion of their cycling business will do nothing but harm ibd's across Canada.
the one thing about MEC is they have substantial buying power and because of this, they cut out the local distributor and buy direct from the company.
i used to work in wholesale and MEC bought our products through a US buying office so they didn't have to buy it from us. did this bother me? not really. what really bothered me is that my other customers in the general area couldn't afford to sell our product line at MEC prices so they just didn't carry them.
MEC's recent expansion of their cycling business will do nothing but harm ibd's across Canada.
in the past that was true. they are pretty close to traditional mark ups on most of their products.
they have to be, look at the real estate their stores are situated on.
they have to be, look at the real estate their stores are situated on.
Man, is this thread ever growing.
My comments:
Canada is a free market economy. Race Face has elected to sell to another dealer, as well as to LBS. So what? It is a business move on their part.
I was just at a MEC last night. If you look at their bike line it is pretty basic. The LBS have nothing to worry about from either the bikes or any parts that MEC sells. They have two different client bases.
I and my family will continue to buy our high end bikes from a local LBS and have them serviced there. If in the future we want to make a major modification to one of the bikes (new forks, etc) we sure wouldn't go to MEC but will go to our LBS. However, there are other customers who like and use MEC bikes and now they will be able to buy Race Face products at MEC as well.
What we are seeing is capitalism at work. MEC has a new product line and Race Face has a new customer. Both will do better because of their working together.
My comments:
Canada is a free market economy. Race Face has elected to sell to another dealer, as well as to LBS. So what? It is a business move on their part.
I was just at a MEC last night. If you look at their bike line it is pretty basic. The LBS have nothing to worry about from either the bikes or any parts that MEC sells. They have two different client bases.
I and my family will continue to buy our high end bikes from a local LBS and have them serviced there. If in the future we want to make a major modification to one of the bikes (new forks, etc) we sure wouldn't go to MEC but will go to our LBS. However, there are other customers who like and use MEC bikes and now they will be able to buy Race Face products at MEC as well.
What we are seeing is capitalism at work. MEC has a new product line and Race Face has a new customer. Both will do better because of their working together.
"The LBS have nothing to worry about from either the bikes or any parts that MEC sells. They have two different client bases." - I disagree. MEC's bikeline is target-marketed at the fastest growing sector of bikes in the urban environment, commuter/urban/city/comfort. And there are plenty of LBS's who sell these style of bicycles successfully year after year, providing quality service and support. MEC's bikeline will directly impact the sales of any LBS in the same market.
"What we are seeing is capitalism at work. MEC has a new product line and Race Face has a new customer. Both will do better because of their working together." - RF will only do better if people choose to buy their product at MEC. I suggest they buy it, like you, from their LBS. That also sends a message to MEC.
"capitalism:
a system of economics under which ownership of and investment in the means of production and distribution depends chiefly upon corporations and private individuals."....I don't know exactly how a "CO-OP" would fit into that.
"What we are seeing is capitalism at work. MEC has a new product line and Race Face has a new customer. Both will do better because of their working together." - RF will only do better if people choose to buy their product at MEC. I suggest they buy it, like you, from their LBS. That also sends a message to MEC.
"capitalism:
a system of economics under which ownership of and investment in the means of production and distribution depends chiefly upon corporations and private individuals."....I don't know exactly how a "CO-OP" would fit into that.
RF will only be offering a limited line at MEC so it probably won't affect much at parts, etc. The bigger effect will be pads and clothing, which most LBS will probably not even touch anymore. Plus, the bigger effects will be in the markets where MEC is located (Vancouver, Calgary, etc). Markets like the interior of BC will probably still carry more RF products unless the LBS there is completely opposed to the MEC approach.
As far as the MEC approach to the bike industry, we'll see. As a mechanic and working in a shop now, finding and keeping experienced and good mechanics and sales people is hard enough for LBS so what MEC is going to offer them that is going to be better is a good question. Their ability to do this is what is going to keep them in the game. Otherwise the situation is going to be the same as it is now, people will buy their brake pads and cheap RF gear at MEC and then take it to the LBS to get it installed and pay labour there. I've heard their bike line is somewhat solid but I don't think you'll see a ton of them on the streets right away. Time will tell and it will effect the industry for sure, but I don't foresee a ton of change.
As far as the MEC approach to the bike industry, we'll see. As a mechanic and working in a shop now, finding and keeping experienced and good mechanics and sales people is hard enough for LBS so what MEC is going to offer them that is going to be better is a good question. Their ability to do this is what is going to keep them in the game. Otherwise the situation is going to be the same as it is now, people will buy their brake pads and cheap RF gear at MEC and then take it to the LBS to get it installed and pay labour there. I've heard their bike line is somewhat solid but I don't think you'll see a ton of them on the streets right away. Time will tell and it will effect the industry for sure, but I don't foresee a ton of change.
I wouldn't be surprised if being a mechanic at MEC isn't great. I bet they offer benefits training and competitive wages. Time will tell.
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with iron horse you can order any of there bikes for sport check you just have to wait for them and the rf problem is that the lbs can't compete with the the big guys like mec because they buy $300,000 worth of product and the lbs buys $5000 at most who is going to get the lower price the big guy the local bike shops are on the way out if the online thing keeps going we are losing the fight then the only loser is going to be the consumer because no waranty no service and that just hurts the sport
Reminds me of when the North Face did the same thing here in the States and started selling their 'low-end' product and select skews to big box retailers. Even though it was the cheap stuff that didn't show up in most 'core climbing shops, initially it pissed off a lot of loyal customers and shops-which included being dropped from the first retailer in the country to pick up the brand and stuck with them up until that point. That was actually a pretty big slap in the face and sent a message throughout that tightnit community. I worked for a small climbing/outdoor store at the time and know that the entire staff boycotted TNF and stopped pushing their wares.
I can't say if it hurt the North Face financially in the long run, but they lost a lot of face (no pun intended) and in my opinion lost a lot of their street cred, so to speak. On a positive note it made room for the likes of Arcteryx, Mountain Hardware, Marmot, etc... to gain more of that market share and fill the void as the core customer and dealer base shook out.
As a mountain biker I feel a lot us share some of the same loyalties towards IBD's and brands as does the tightnit climbing community. My guess is that it will have a similar effect to Race Face and 'dumb down' the brand a bit for a lot of people. I like some of Race Face's products, but there's a lot of competition out there.
But only time will tell how this all shakes out.
I can't say if it hurt the North Face financially in the long run, but they lost a lot of face (no pun intended) and in my opinion lost a lot of their street cred, so to speak. On a positive note it made room for the likes of Arcteryx, Mountain Hardware, Marmot, etc... to gain more of that market share and fill the void as the core customer and dealer base shook out.
As a mountain biker I feel a lot us share some of the same loyalties towards IBD's and brands as does the tightnit climbing community. My guess is that it will have a similar effect to Race Face and 'dumb down' the brand a bit for a lot of people. I like some of Race Face's products, but there's a lot of competition out there.
But only time will tell how this all shakes out.
i agree i will not shop at the big guys even if it cost a little more i would rather support the little guy for all my hiking needs
So basicly to all you IBDs who have supported us and helped us grow our company, we at RaceFace would like to say go f*ck yourselves.
I know of one shop in the interior that will not only discontinue carrying RF they will also stop selling any bike models spec'd with RF. HThey won't be the only ones.
I know of one shop in the interior that will not only discontinue carrying RF they will also stop selling any bike models spec'd with RF. HThey won't be the only ones.
no there will be a lot of dealers that will stop carrying rf product i have been in the bike industry for 14 years and been with rf from the star
i have been fighting mec sense there begining they are the walmart of the hiking and biking world the bad guys
i have been fighting mec sense there begining they are the walmart of the hiking and biking world the bad guys
wal-mart, really? how much did the ceo and president / vps make at wal-mart in the last ten years at the expense of its own employees and sweatshops around the world selling crap? how many locations does wal-mart have? comparing wal-mart to mec is a joke. mec contributes to the community, doesn't make a profit, uses third party auditing for their overseas factories, is environmentally conscious (green buildings, no bags or corn bags, recycling, composting, and the list goes on) doesn't sell crap, has good wages and benefits for their employees and on and on... and they didn't start doing it b/c they got caught (ala nike). i'm happy to support a co-op that is NOT run for profit, it is a nice change from our profits at all cost run business everywhere else - look where that has gotten us (a crumbling economy and a world on the brink of disaster - environmentally and socially). there is more to consider here, calling out mec as the walmart of the hiking and biking world is pretty close minded. other outdoor stores actually put up shop next to mec (in calgary anyway) and do well as a result of their proximity to mec, so they haven't put hiking/camping stores under - so how can you assume this will happen to lbs? my 2 cents.
With all the emotion and miscommunication flying around about this issue the last thing needed is someone impersonating a RaceFace employee to make inflammatory comments like this. At least use a fake account Dave of Westwood Cycle Rocky Point..
how do you suppose mec can open new locations and pay ceo six figures if they don't make a profit, I think you are highly misinformed about mec as a company. Also painting a building green doesn't make it environmentally friendly, almost ALL shops and stores recycle, and composting? have you ever seen a compost pile outside their store? what the hell would they be composting? mec is only technically considered a coop because they were established as one and they still charge customers to shop there but realistically they are more like a corporation. as far as i know they are in a battle to keep their coop status but are really just doing the minimum of what they have to to not be taxed as a corporation.
they compost food waste from their staff's lunches, the compost is on the balcony at the Calgary store. yes they make money to make purchases, pay their staff and CEO, pay for their buildings and build new ones - but it has no independent owners or stockholders, every member who shops there is an owner (and there are 3 million of them), so there is no single owner making a profit. furthermore they have an elected board that get paid NOTHING that make decisions regarding how the co-op is run. so really if you have a problem with MEC you need to take it up with its 3 million members, because technically they make the call in how it operates, or you could join MEC and then run for the board of governors to have a say in its decisions. if you want to live in a country free of co-ops call your local MP and let them know, or better yet, run for office and make some changes.
this spells it out pretty clearly:
http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198674104564&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302884190&bmUID=1257040061179
that's great that other shops recycle, but MEC pushes the envelope as far as retailers go in the sustainability department. I don't know of many other stores that do as much as they do. action the co-op has taken includes: rooftop gardens, geothermal heating, run off of windpower, use solar lighting in offices with no windows, recycle everything possible, build new stores out of reclaimed materials, run information sessions on backcountry responsibility, donate warranty return items that are still of use to shelters for distribution, purchase recreational land that is at risk of being developed, have several clothing items made out of recycled polyester / nylon, manufacture cotton clothing using only organic cotton, hold sustainable trail building training sessions and do a lot more that I probably don't know about.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=d7729874-1dde-4785-ba4e-2980e52a714b.
this spells it out pretty clearly:
http://www.mec.ca/Main/content_text.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198674104564&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302884190&bmUID=1257040061179
that's great that other shops recycle, but MEC pushes the envelope as far as retailers go in the sustainability department. I don't know of many other stores that do as much as they do. action the co-op has taken includes: rooftop gardens, geothermal heating, run off of windpower, use solar lighting in offices with no windows, recycle everything possible, build new stores out of reclaimed materials, run information sessions on backcountry responsibility, donate warranty return items that are still of use to shelters for distribution, purchase recreational land that is at risk of being developed, have several clothing items made out of recycled polyester / nylon, manufacture cotton clothing using only organic cotton, hold sustainable trail building training sessions and do a lot more that I probably don't know about.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=d7729874-1dde-4785-ba4e-2980e52a714b.
well sounds to me like RF just shot themselves in the foot. But what is the difference when you already have retailers selling RF on ebay for less then some lbs' pay for them? Some of these ebays stores are located in Canada. Then there is Jensen and Price Point also.
Seems like much ado about nothing. RF product will be available in a limited form at MEC and LBS can choose to carry higher end product without the additional costs of Lambert being the middle man. I'm not a big fan of MEC, so I'm not inclined to get RF gear from them, but I really don't see the big deal. Either RF changes some of its strategy to compete with online retailers or they miss out. It's their choice as to how they distribute their products and LBS still has access to skus that MEC won't be carrying.
more misinformed souls, rf is probably offering mec their manufacturers prices while giving lbs a small discount on the distributors prices the result being higher sales to mec and higher profits from lbs. You guys should know that lbs make a very small margin from these parts to begin with, like 30-40%. In fact, every year lately the margin is getting smaller. the prices really aren't the lbs' fault, they sell for what they are told to sell for and if they undercut that they are shat on and threatened by the distributors to pull their products.
Reminds me of Burton. They started selling stuff to Sport Check, Sport Mart and all those other big box mainstream mall stores a few years ago.
I know Burton make great boards, clothes and gear...but I can't help but look at them differently now. I've lost respect for them as a company for selling out that way. They hurt all the great little core snowboard shops by doing this...those same shops that helped make snowboarding what it is today. It's kinda sad.
So are the local bike shops heading down the same path?
I know Burton make great boards, clothes and gear...but I can't help but look at them differently now. I've lost respect for them as a company for selling out that way. They hurt all the great little core snowboard shops by doing this...those same shops that helped make snowboarding what it is today. It's kinda sad.
So are the local bike shops heading down the same path?
I was about say the same thing about the ski industry. Salamon, K2, Rossignol, Head, Helly Hansen, DaKine, and other companies chose to sell their goods through sport check. I for one do not see an issue with this, and neither does my boss who owns the ski store i work at. We still sell Salomon, Rossignol, and Helly Hansen, and if we had room to sell the others we would. We offer the same products for around the same price, the only people you see buying the products at sport check are people who are just getting into the sport or people who are very casual and only use their equipment a few times a season, and for the most part every one of Sport Checks suppliers for their snow sports only supply them with base to mid level products. The people who buy their products from Sport Check eventually get into a independent ski shop, who tunes their equipment and sells them items that Sport Check does not offer or products that are slightly higher in price than sport check.
I shop at mec, not for high end items mind you or biking/skiing/climbing/ or kayaking items.
All raceface is doing is increasing their consumer base, and in turn bringing more people into the sport, and eventually more people into local bike stores.
I shop at mec, not for high end items mind you or biking/skiing/climbing/ or kayaking items.
All raceface is doing is increasing their consumer base, and in turn bringing more people into the sport, and eventually more people into local bike stores.
but would you not rather have your store be making a margin off these lower priced items, allowing your store to grow its customer base instead and sending these people on properly fitted and tuned equipment so they can enjoy there sport of choice more or the people heading up Sportchek and its parent company stuffing there pockets not caring what they sell and the greasy sales staff there not giving a rats ass because they are making commission and for the most part having no knowledge of what they sell. I worked at sportchek, i know how it works there. I've seen sales staff send 12 year old kids out on XC bikes that were to big for them selling them as DJ bikes.
I agree with bomberdave. I haven't worked in retail for a long time so I'm not sure what things are like now... But even back when I did (about 9 years ago) people would come in to the snowboard/bike shops I worked at complaining that they were having issues with their equipment they had bought at these big box stores. More often than not when I saw what they were riding it was either the wrong size, or just the wrong thing for what they needed. (Boards that were too wide/long, poor fitting boots, bikes that were way too big, helmets that were too big...the worst one I would see all the time were bikes that were taken out of the box and not even put together correctly! I often saw forks that were on backwards and wheels that were about to fall off...on brand new bikes!)
The customer would then go on to tell me that they salesperson at the big box/mall store told them it was perfect for them. Like bomberdave said...those salespeople either didn't have the knowledge of the product they were selling, or they simply didn't care and wanted to make their commission.
The customer would then go on to tell me that they salesperson at the big box/mall store told them it was perfect for them. Like bomberdave said...those salespeople either didn't have the knowledge of the product they were selling, or they simply didn't care and wanted to make their commission.
Well put bomberdave and a very good point from srh2.
MEC, where a kayaker sells the bikes and a rock-climber sells the kayaks.
MEC, where a kayaker sells the bikes and a rock-climber sells the kayaks.
I have received both excellent and poor service from staff at both IBSs and mec. totally depends on who is working that day.
Yet another issue local bike stores need to tackle if they want to keep consumers coming through the door. But those experienced, professional employees come at a cost and it's hard to pay those wages if consumers are constantly shopping online and going to MEC.
MEC, where a kayaker sells the bikes and a rock-climber sells the kayaks.
Sometimes true..but I've never had a kayaker pretend to know the bikes and try to sell, rather just give me the most honest unpushy advice he can.
At an IBS, it is often some poser, pretending to know everything, telling me what I need.
Sometimes true..but I've never had a kayaker pretend to know the bikes and try to sell, rather just give me the most honest unpushy advice he can.
At an IBS, it is often some poser, pretending to know everything, telling me what I need.
I work at a bike shop here in Canada, and we buy our RaceFace parts through Cycles Lambert, atleast we have for the last couple of years. I see MEC stepping in to the bicycles sales business as a threat to my job.
There are 13 MECs in Canada and they mae one purchase order for all of the stores, that is huge buying power and volume, there is no way that an independent bicycle dealer can match that buy power or volume. Because of the volume that MEC buys they get extremely low cost on the product and even though the % of mark up may be the same MEC will always have the lower price. As a consumer the average Joe is going to be looking for the best price he can get. This leave stores like the one I work for hanging in the wind with lower sales. To lower our prices to match MEC we do not have the funds to pay employees and buy the better products. IBDs make a living on the lower to mid priced bikes and that is the market that MEC is going to steal from us. Yes it would be nice if there were more high end bikes and parts being purchased but there will never be enough to support a shop. When I heard that MEC was moving into bike sales and service, I tore up my MEC membership and refuse to go in there again and I urge every cyclist to do the same thing. We don't step on thier toes stay the F*%k off ours.
I have been a long time RF supporter but this news makes me want to throw my RF products in the garbage
There are 13 MECs in Canada and they mae one purchase order for all of the stores, that is huge buying power and volume, there is no way that an independent bicycle dealer can match that buy power or volume. Because of the volume that MEC buys they get extremely low cost on the product and even though the % of mark up may be the same MEC will always have the lower price. As a consumer the average Joe is going to be looking for the best price he can get. This leave stores like the one I work for hanging in the wind with lower sales. To lower our prices to match MEC we do not have the funds to pay employees and buy the better products. IBDs make a living on the lower to mid priced bikes and that is the market that MEC is going to steal from us. Yes it would be nice if there were more high end bikes and parts being purchased but there will never be enough to support a shop. When I heard that MEC was moving into bike sales and service, I tore up my MEC membership and refuse to go in there again and I urge every cyclist to do the same thing. We don't step on thier toes stay the F*%k off ours.
I have been a long time RF supporter but this news makes me want to throw my RF products in the garbage
"Steal" - this is a free market economy, businesses can do what they want - did MEC complain when park tool refused to sell to them b/c of IBDs complaining (may be interpreted as toe stepping)? No, they went out and found another supplier like they always do when the IBDs get upset. MEC will only be selling/servicing bikes at their larger stores - Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto - and the MECs there will never be able to handle all of the needs of consumers in these huge cities, not to mention all of the hundreds of cities and towns that do not have a MEC. A post below said it well, in a year from now, nobody will care. Has REI put all IBDs out of business in the USA? If your shop gives good service you will have nothing to worry about.
handsomedan: Unfortunately whoever posted the comment that "a year from now nobody will care" is probably true. People get all fired up on these forums and then go buy their parts online from a US webstore anyway, talk about fueling the problem. If all those online buyers purchased at their local bike store I bet it would make a considerable difference in bike shops being willing to continue selling RF product. Same goes for any bike-related product.
Also, "business can do what they want"?????? Are you serious? Of course they can't! It's that attitude that makes everyone, including business, think that they can. So instead of rolling over like a subservient puppy, buck up and vote with your dollars! Besides, if business could do whatever they wanted, RaceFace would already be selling online directly to the consumer (but don't think that's so far off either probably, but hopefully not).
Also, "business can do what they want"?????? Are you serious? Of course they can't! It's that attitude that makes everyone, including business, think that they can. So instead of rolling over like a subservient puppy, buck up and vote with your dollars! Besides, if business could do whatever they wanted, RaceFace would already be selling online directly to the consumer (but don't think that's so far off either probably, but hopefully not).
I agree with you 100% - the consumer votes with their money, but businesses ultimately make the decisions they want in a free market economy. Example all bike companies except a select few move their manufacturing overseas for monetary reasons (the company/business decides this) now I can buy a devinci or a knolly for more cash or buy a norco or a kona and save some. The decision is mine, I agree with you I vote with my money to keep manufacturing here or move it overseas. However, when I am vacationing in Colorado and pop into a local bike shop and find parts at significantly lower prices than my shops here in Canada (after the CND dollar has been up for a year and a half) I start to wonder what I am voting for - i.e. Lambert's big mark-ups, LBSs big mark ups? Why can the shop in the US offer it for less and still make a profit? The product I was looking at was made overseas (Taiwan) and in Canada (high end RF) that I was looking at. Also, when I shop at MEC I am voting for their business practice (warranty service, environmental and social) that I agree with and think more businesses should follow.
Just read this on another news site. Sounds like RF is requiring their MSRP to be maintained
"Some clarification...
I just got off the phone with RaceFace looking for some clarification. MEC did not purchase RF. MEC will be carrying a couple jerseys and shorts for the upcoming season and will eventually carry the lower end Ryde and Evolve series hardgoods.
In order for your LBS to remain competitive MEC must sell all RF products within 10% of MSRP.
RF will be issuing a press release and details of the changes to the distribution in the next day or two."
http://www.asilvertouch.com/forums/index.php?s=327e0681ecc16829bc0b6ad7fe32d771&showtopic=6067
"Some clarification...
I just got off the phone with RaceFace looking for some clarification. MEC did not purchase RF. MEC will be carrying a couple jerseys and shorts for the upcoming season and will eventually carry the lower end Ryde and Evolve series hardgoods.
In order for your LBS to remain competitive MEC must sell all RF products within 10% of MSRP.
RF will be issuing a press release and details of the changes to the distribution in the next day or two."
http://www.asilvertouch.com/forums/index.php?s=327e0681ecc16829bc0b6ad7fe32d771&showtopic=6067
The funny thing about this is, consumers can't barter at MEC, but they seem to think they can at their local bike shop, further eroding the margin for the bike shop, making it harder for them to justify stocking and selling the products.
RF probably says something similar to bike shops too but as I mentioned above, people seem to think bike shops don't need profit to operate and barter down the price and if they're not successful at that, they go buy it online.
RF probably says something similar to bike shops too but as I mentioned above, people seem to think bike shops don't need profit to operate and barter down the price and if they're not successful at that, they go buy it online.
woah, hold it right there, lbs only get a 30-40% margin on ALL stock bikes included. tents and camping gear is a 300% markup and the ONLY reason mec can sell for less is because they are BARELY classified as a coop and as such get HUGE tax breaks.
prices at your lbs are high because of the manufacturer and distributors, lbs' only sell for what they are told to, and for 2010 costs are going up but we're told to sell products for the same retail-->meaning the margin is getting even smaller
You are wrong, wrong, wrong unless the rules vary from industry to industry. As far as my manufacturers are concerned once I pay them for the part they could careless what I sell it for so people at the bike shops saying that they make 30-40 points on a item is BS. I have only ever run into one manufacturer that wanted us to sell at a certain price at that was GoPro to keep the cost of there product the same across the board regardless or who buys and sells it for $199USD. As for the LBS I lost all respect when a salesmen quoted me $199 for a shock and when I showed up to purchase it they changed there tune to $340 and when I was like "well what the eff happened to the $199 quote" I got a reply of "someone misquoted you, nothing we can do" and then they walked away from me and didnt even try to salvage the sale, at that point EFF the LBS. I couldnt barter for a price nor did I even get good customer service which is the main selling point for a bike shop. Customer relations will make or break a returning customer, I walked out of my LBS and I will not go back ever again after this mistake on there behalf.
"Please contact us if you would like to know the exact skus MEC will stock; we are happy to share that information with you."
The impact of this could be largely swayed by just what there going to let MEC deal. In any event it will hurt LBS, one would assume. Hopefully this won't have major detrimental effects. I really hope this was a well thought out decision on Race Face's part. Not just a money grab in a larger market.
The impact of this could be largely swayed by just what there going to let MEC deal. In any event it will hurt LBS, one would assume. Hopefully this won't have major detrimental effects. I really hope this was a well thought out decision on Race Face's part. Not just a money grab in a larger market.
Here's my prediction...
A year from now no one will care.
Customers will still go to their LBS, people will still shop at MEC and everyone will still ride bikes.
A year from now no one will care.
Customers will still go to their LBS, people will still shop at MEC and everyone will still ride bikes.
I completely agree with you. For those people talking about boycotting Race Face... grow up. They said they will only allow specific parts into MEC. From the sound of it (if MEC is anything like an REI) they aren't even that bad! Great place to get lots of great gear, but if you really want the good bike stuff... you know you gotta go to a LBS.
the point still is sure the bike shop can bring in the "good stuff" but the good stuff doesnt keep the shop open, the stuff MEC will be selling keeps the shop open
MEC is over priced any ways.. this is not going to change anything.. my LBS doesn't carry much R/F they carry the smaller more grass roots company's
bomberdave: I am willing to be that race face parts don't keep a shop open. In fact, I doubt that any PARTS keep a shop open. A shop stays open because of good customer service, good repairs, and a good product. If your shop fails because race face starts selling products to ONE more store... you have other issues. Read the comment below by KravenAride... he about summed it all up.
anything ive said was a comment in general about the industry, i didnt say it was raceface in general. And if you think that labor and good customer service pays all the bills and keeps the employee's happy then your running a bit slow on how a business is run. A retail store is based on product sales and smiley faces, not one or the other. A bike shop needs all 3 to survive
I did say good product. People go to a bike shop for a reason, they know they will get a better bike than at MEC with better service and a better experience. I am agreeing with you on this one. I did not realize your comment was general, I assumed you meant Race Face. Either way, places like MEC and REI have been around for a while and I don't see the GOOD bike shops going anywhere. Just reading the comments on here shows how much support the LBS have. But, in defense of my labor comment... that is a major source of profit (at least at my shop. correction, the shop I work at). Either way I agree that you need all three to be successful. Cheers.
Not a fan of MEC. Never owned any Race Face. Doesn't effect me, but I feel for those who it does. I'm Canadian and I like to buy Canadian. I also like to buy smart.
If all of you working at, or owning local bikes shops are so threatened by the marketing decision of ONE component / soft goods supplier, then maybe you need to look at your business model and put some energy into becoming better business people. Blaming others for your business's short comings is pathetic. And yes I do own my own company. I have for over 20 years.
"Innovate or Die", but please, quite whining and be accountable.
"Innovate or Die", but please, quite whining and be accountable.
As a consumer.. to me it all comes down to price, quality, and availability of the product. I find no real difference in price of brand name products carried by MEC and my LBS until end of season sales or preseason sales at the LBS. However, what I have noticed is the quality of MEC brand products has improved over the years. If you think about it you will go in looking for that deal on a brand name item only to find a MEC product that is just as good and a bit cheaper. In my opinion my LBS has nothing to fear that a brand they carry will be also in MEC, but that the MEC brand maybe an equal replacement for that brand. ps.. 90% of the time I end up at my LBS for things I need anyway.
A couple things:
Think MEC have an unfair advantage: Follow their biz model
Think MEC sell to low: Cut your margin and learn to live with it
Think MEC have an unfair advantage: Follow their biz model
Think MEC sell to low: Cut your margin and learn to live with it
I think the idea here was at MEC buying at a lower cost they would be maintaining a higher margin then IBD's even if IBD's were to sell at a lower margin.
Don't know where I stand on this issue as an Employee of an IBD but with Cycles Lambert pulling RaceFace product already a line is being drawn. I think it was a rash decision to cut their product when we aren't even sure what products MEC will be carrying.
Don't know where I stand on this issue as an Employee of an IBD but with Cycles Lambert pulling RaceFace product already a line is being drawn. I think it was a rash decision to cut their product when we aren't even sure what products MEC will be carrying.
zeGG: "Think MEC have an unfair advantage: Follow their biz model" - uh, how about not. How about, think outside the box, be an independent free-thinker who doesn't accept something "just because that's the way it has to be." By RF selling their product in MEC they're adding to the deterioration of the value of their product, even if it's based primarily on consumer-perception.
Don't get me wrong, I love RaceFace components, I don't like the fact that they're fishing for sales.
Don't get me wrong, I love RaceFace components, I don't like the fact that they're fishing for sales.
I should have add another thing:
Competition is (almost) always good for the marketplace.
greg939:If Cycle Lambert is pulling RF, seems like an opportunity for your IBD to cut the middle man and get those RF products at a better price doesn't it?
shimaceo: Seems to me that a Co-op is much more 'outside the box' than a classic 'for profit' business start by a 'an independent free-thinker who doesn't accept something' and decide to make something on it's own.
Competition is (almost) always good for the marketplace.
greg939:If Cycle Lambert is pulling RF, seems like an opportunity for your IBD to cut the middle man and get those RF products at a better price doesn't it?
shimaceo: Seems to me that a Co-op is much more 'outside the box' than a classic 'for profit' business start by a 'an independent free-thinker who doesn't accept something' and decide to make something on it's own.
I don't know what this means for the LBS or Raceface and I think at this point it is just speculation. Fair enough. A lot of people have a great deal invested in this industry financially, physically, and emotionally and it is only natural some anxiety will arise with any change. I wish all the best to all affected. I'm not currently running any Race Face, but I have in the past and have always appreciated their influence and presence in the industry, especially as a proudly Canadian company. I wouldn't want to go on a witch hunt at this point due to speculation and start blacklisting companies because of a string of anonymous rants and fortune telling.
It's also sadly ironic that everyone is calling out Race Face for turning their backs on the public but then are willing to crucify them after a couple of paragraphs on a business transaction with an unknown impact with no regard or acknowledgment to their years of legendary contributions to the sport both in terms of product, rider support, event sponsorship ect.
Everywhere is WAR. A big Mec just open 3 blocks from the bike shop I work in and we sold, installed and rode RF products. Unfortunately we will have to turn on another brand. And for the Mec they will only sell some clothes and thats it what a improvement.
MEC is still a grey market (close to the black market, they don't pay taxes like other shops because they are considered as a coop) that any local bike shops should worry because theyre selling stuff under our own bike shop cost....
they are subject to a different set of tax laws because they are a co-op, this also means nobody makes a huge profit every year like private businesses do.
This is causing quite a stir in the industry.I know here in Ontario they have been dropped by their distrubutor and a few shop are blowing out their RF stuff to clear inventory for other brands.Although some LBSs might still buy direct from RF,alot will simply not stock or sell RF components anymore.
For those of you that have commented on being able to by Shimano, Sram, and other such brands at MEC, I would like you to ask you local MEC store where they buy it from? They have skipped all the conventional buying channels and have choosen to buy grey market product. They have been unable to find a distributor in Canada that is willing to sell to them due to their business practices. MEC chooses to buy grey market product for a fraction of the actual cost and still charge close to full retail on many items. The bike industry can survive with MEC in it, and we will survive with MEC in it. We don't have a choice on that, all our IBD's want is a level playing field. MEC's status as a coop should no longer exsist, and they should no longer be buying grey market product. Give us a fair playing field and there is no reason to complain. After all a lil competion is a good thing.
We DO have a choice, DON'T BUY BIKE PARTS FROM MEC!!!!!!!!!!!!
We can talk here all day but when push comes to shove, everyone needs to put their dollars where their mouths are so go out and support your local bike shop!
We can talk here all day but when push comes to shove, everyone needs to put their dollars where their mouths are so go out and support your local bike shop!
I completely disagree with both comments, I like having affordable outdoor gear and being part of a co-op. Getting people outdoors in all activities is a great thing - saves us tax all dollars all over the place (health care for one). They also offer many, many services and operate in a way that most businesses do not - backcountry education programs, responsible trail building and clean up days, battery recycling programs, rubber recycling programs, affordable outdoor rental gear, an amazing warranty program, local environmental initiatives, national environmental programs (to buy land being used for outdoor recreation that is in danger of being developed), they ethically source their product, run all of their buildings emissions free and probably more that I don't know about.
Better question in my mind is why should I support my local bike shop with parts purchases? What am I voting for here with my money? MEC keeps many people employed at a decent wage and great benefits program (especially for the retail world) and they do all of the above and more.
Better question in my mind is why should I support my local bike shop with parts purchases? What am I voting for here with my money? MEC keeps many people employed at a decent wage and great benefits program (especially for the retail world) and they do all of the above and more.
All excellent points. Now we need our local bike shops to recognize this and act on it, showing that they can think and work outside the box. 
I agree that MEC is much more public about how progressive they are compared to most LBS's. Having said that, to some degree, LBS's are only as "green" as their suppliers since the LBS can't/doesn't make the parts/bikes themselves.
Also, it's been said MEC talks the talk but has a hard time walking the walk so to put them on a progressive-pedestal of god-like environmental conscientiousness is ridiculous. Most of them probably drive cars, take vacations (via jet-flight), own computers and buy products manufactured somewhere in southeast Asia: http://www.storyofstuff.com/
To say "at least they're trying" is relevant, but so is the recycling program at my local bike shop which just so happens to sell only Canadian made products if at all possible and justifiably sells everything they do based on reducing, reusing and recycling, including clothing and pannier bags made from recycled materials. Oh, they also installed green-lighting this past year, don't have a fax machine (they do but apparently it's never plugged in), use environmentally sensitive cleaners and to top it all of, every single person on staff either walks or rides to work.
I agree that MEC is much more public about how progressive they are compared to most LBS's. Having said that, to some degree, LBS's are only as "green" as their suppliers since the LBS can't/doesn't make the parts/bikes themselves.
Also, it's been said MEC talks the talk but has a hard time walking the walk so to put them on a progressive-pedestal of god-like environmental conscientiousness is ridiculous. Most of them probably drive cars, take vacations (via jet-flight), own computers and buy products manufactured somewhere in southeast Asia: http://www.storyofstuff.com/
To say "at least they're trying" is relevant, but so is the recycling program at my local bike shop which just so happens to sell only Canadian made products if at all possible and justifiably sells everything they do based on reducing, reusing and recycling, including clothing and pannier bags made from recycled materials. Oh, they also installed green-lighting this past year, don't have a fax machine (they do but apparently it's never plugged in), use environmentally sensitive cleaners and to top it all of, every single person on staff either walks or rides to work.
Kudos to your bike shop for taking those initiatives and really to all bike shops - they all get people riding. MEC also supports not driving to work with shower and locker rooms, and large bike room. I obviously am a fan of how they operate - keep in mind all of the things I have listed are actions they do take - they are walking the walk, not just trying or talking, they consistently win national awards recognizing their initiative.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=d7729874-1dde-4785-ba4e-2980e52a714b.
Of course there is always room for improvement, and we can all make changes; nobody is perfect. That being said I like to support businesses that are making headway in these areas and unfortunately to my knowledge none of the Edmonton shops are really pushing the envelope in these regards.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/business/story.html?id=d7729874-1dde-4785-ba4e-2980e52a714b.
Of course there is always room for improvement, and we can all make changes; nobody is perfect. That being said I like to support businesses that are making headway in these areas and unfortunately to my knowledge none of the Edmonton shops are really pushing the envelope in these regards.
I am at an Edmonton shop with a recycling program, that buys bulk to minimize waste, has a large staff bike park and showers, a bus pass sponsorship program,and provides input on the cycling infrastructure building in the city.
I forgot to mention collecting product from the public for for local charity, as well as donating time, product and money.
If I read this correctly, once again, MEC is NOT a RaceFace distributor (company who sells parts to other reatailers, like your local bike shop). They are just another "bike shop" where you can purchase RaceFace's product.
Talk about laying the groundwork for online sales in Canada! - "In very frank terms, we decided to add MEC as a customer because the distribution landscape in Canada is changing concerning the selling of bicycles and bicycling related products."
Talk about a "they're doing it so why can't we"-statement: "It should be noted that many top brands already support and sell their products through MEC, and as MEC’s bike program grows this will continue to evolve as they build new partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers."
Talk about laying the groundwork for online sales in Canada! - "In very frank terms, we decided to add MEC as a customer because the distribution landscape in Canada is changing concerning the selling of bicycles and bicycling related products."
Talk about a "they're doing it so why can't we"-statement: "It should be noted that many top brands already support and sell their products through MEC, and as MEC’s bike program grows this will continue to evolve as they build new partnerships with manufacturers and suppliers."
Cheers to Race Face!
I personally am tired of the business model that does not promote competition and good business practices.
When several bike shops can apply pressure on the distributer to not sell to their competitor because the competitor is selling below MSR this reeks of price fixing in my mind.
What if the competition has a business model that allows them to give excellent and knowledgeable service, still make good margins and pass along savings to the consumer?
I support good bike shops and service and don't mind paying a little more for that service but to say every joe blow who fell off the turnip truck has the right to make as much money in a business that is not run as efficiently as their competition due to a "level playing field" goes against my beliefs of competition and capitalism.
Should the consumer pay the price for lack of competition?
Bike shops like to play the discount game based on who you are, how much they think you are willing to pay and making the sale - why can the consumer not have the ability to find the best combination of service and price that they require? Business that find efficiencies within rather than passing the cost on to their customers will survive in the long run.
Another thing - HST will change it in BC but how many consumers are still paying PST on bike parts??? check this out to see if you too have been eroneously charged Provincial Sales Tax:
http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/sst_001.pdf
I personally am tired of the business model that does not promote competition and good business practices.
When several bike shops can apply pressure on the distributer to not sell to their competitor because the competitor is selling below MSR this reeks of price fixing in my mind.
What if the competition has a business model that allows them to give excellent and knowledgeable service, still make good margins and pass along savings to the consumer?
I support good bike shops and service and don't mind paying a little more for that service but to say every joe blow who fell off the turnip truck has the right to make as much money in a business that is not run as efficiently as their competition due to a "level playing field" goes against my beliefs of competition and capitalism.
Should the consumer pay the price for lack of competition?
Bike shops like to play the discount game based on who you are, how much they think you are willing to pay and making the sale - why can the consumer not have the ability to find the best combination of service and price that they require? Business that find efficiencies within rather than passing the cost on to their customers will survive in the long run.
Another thing - HST will change it in BC but how many consumers are still paying PST on bike parts??? check this out to see if you too have been eroneously charged Provincial Sales Tax:
http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_library/bulletins/sst_001.pdf
Mountain Equipment Co-Op is a misnomer. It is not, in fact, a co-op. If it were, the higher ups would not be making six figure incomes. They are the Wal-Mart of outdoors stores, and their reputation for following their own rules is infamous. Most bike industry companies refuse to deal with them, and by Race Faces decision to sell to them, they broke the contract they held with Cycles Lambert to distribute RF product through 2010. Race Faces contract stated that they would NOT sell to MEC, and they decided that having a distributorship with the largest bicycle parts distributor in Canada was not enough. Mec has only a few stores in Canada, and Race Faces decision to sell to them is a step backward. IBD's were ecstatic to hear that Race Face FINALLY had proper distributorship in Canada a couple of years back when it was announced that Cycles Lambert would carry them. Dealing with Race Face directly resulted in lost or screwed up orders, and slow shipment times, even in the same city (Vancouver). MEC has a reputation for not sticking with strict pricing guidlines, selling products for as little as 5% over cost. This pricing kills IBD'S. It's nice to have cheaper parts, but if there aren't any IBD's left, all you have to deal with is MEC, a company that knows ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about mountain biking. Then you'll be SOLD products that you don't want or need because there isn't anyone around who will set you in the right direction.
I find that in a IBS the staff often try to talk me into something I don't need. At MEC where there is no commission sales and no incentive really for selling b/c there are no profits to shareholders and presidents / vps etc. I am NEVER talked into something I don't need and I get just as sound advice (sometimes good sometimes bad) as I would at a bike shop. Yes MEC does pay its CEO six figures - this is one person - do you think there is a CEO out there who will work for free - How much does the CEO of Walmart make? Did you also mention that they have a board of directors that are integral in making decisions for MEC that does not get paid? See my post above they are the opposite of Walmart. I'm not so sure some bikes shops know more about the backcountry than MEC and sustainable trailbuilding so I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I do know that if you are sold the wrong product at MEC you can bring it back no questions asked - try that at your local bike shop and see how it goes, I'm sure many of us have been down that road, it doesn't usually go well unless you have the receipt, it was within a certain time frame, the product hasn't been used, is in the packaging and the moon is full.
Whatever Raceface decides to do isn't going to change my attitude towards my LBS. I go out of my way to shop at my LBS, I respect the opinions of the techs & I wouldn't trust anyone else to service my bikes. I will still purchase RF parts because I believe in the quality and durability. The quality of the staff and service of a business is what I look for when I make a purchase. For me Raceface is local, HQ'd just down the street and manufactured 10 km away. MEC is too far away from me to make an impact on my purchases from my LBS.
PS: I have shopped at MEC and will continue to buy backpacks etc from them.
PS: I have shopped at MEC and will continue to buy backpacks etc from them.
mec sucks, mec rocks, ibd's suck, ibd's rock, debate could go on forever. I'm wondering if there is a legal issue of a distributer not selling to a company so that other companies can sell for a certain price.
MEC only has about a dozen stores and they are only located in major city centers. There are so many people in those major cities that there is more than enough business to go around for both MEC and all the LBS.
As for the rest of Canada which is made up of small towns, the LBS will continue to be the place to shop because there are no MEC stores in small towns, so your only option is a LBS unless you feel the need to drive 100km to buy a part for your bike.
The online retail part of MEC would also have no effect on LBS because there are so many other online retailers including Ebay that already sell Raceface products that one more cant hurt.
As for the rest of Canada which is made up of small towns, the LBS will continue to be the place to shop because there are no MEC stores in small towns, so your only option is a LBS unless you feel the need to drive 100km to buy a part for your bike.
The online retail part of MEC would also have no effect on LBS because there are so many other online retailers including Ebay that already sell Raceface products that one more cant hurt.
All my LBS have screwed me over some way or another so I dont deal with any of the ones in my community now. I goto the real pros in North Van. they know what they are talking about, they know what they are doing and most of all they treat me like every other person who walks in the door and not a walking dollar sign like some others. I live just in Vancouver so its a small trek to North Van. to goto the shop but for the service and atmosphere I would even go double the distance.
So what if....
Mec sells limited number of SKU's and to an entirely different market than they have historically sold to. Lets face it, the LBS/IBD is not going to see the same customers that MEC/REI see. Different groups, different target markets etc. So say RF starts selling a lot more product, more jobs for Canadians in BC = a good thing. They sell a LOT more... of specific things, that are likely not the UBER high end Gucci type hardware, more of the run of the mill replacement parts... awesome for the consumer, getting a far superior locally made product for a fair price. Good for Mec, good for RF.
Awesome...
The spin off could/may/should be an overall reduction in the cost of ALL RF products, including the high end. Economies of scale...more people buying, more employees building, larger orders for raw materials, deeper discounts on all counts. "if you ship 1 box you pay x, if you ship 1000 boxes you pay 1/2 of x".
I realize that this is a "sunny day scenario", but hey, things are going to change, change is as they say, inevitable. RF could have gone to Walmart/Big Box store, but lets face if (no pun intended) they went with a Canadian company employing Canadian workers supplying them with Canadian made goods.
Short term this may add more load to the already stressed LBS, I hope it doesn't. I seriously doubt I will be buying any $400.00 cranks at MEC, but I likely still will at my LBS. Oh and Sport Mart was epic failure on the Iron Horse side of things... high end bikes do not sell well at a retail level because of, you guessed it...no service. REI sells bikes all right, and so will Mec, consumer level bikes.
You wont get your next SC V10 at Mec anytime soon. Your friendly neighborhood LBS will be where your Interac card hits the counter for that!!
Mec sells limited number of SKU's and to an entirely different market than they have historically sold to. Lets face it, the LBS/IBD is not going to see the same customers that MEC/REI see. Different groups, different target markets etc. So say RF starts selling a lot more product, more jobs for Canadians in BC = a good thing. They sell a LOT more... of specific things, that are likely not the UBER high end Gucci type hardware, more of the run of the mill replacement parts... awesome for the consumer, getting a far superior locally made product for a fair price. Good for Mec, good for RF.
Awesome...
The spin off could/may/should be an overall reduction in the cost of ALL RF products, including the high end. Economies of scale...more people buying, more employees building, larger orders for raw materials, deeper discounts on all counts. "if you ship 1 box you pay x, if you ship 1000 boxes you pay 1/2 of x".
I realize that this is a "sunny day scenario", but hey, things are going to change, change is as they say, inevitable. RF could have gone to Walmart/Big Box store, but lets face if (no pun intended) they went with a Canadian company employing Canadian workers supplying them with Canadian made goods.
Short term this may add more load to the already stressed LBS, I hope it doesn't. I seriously doubt I will be buying any $400.00 cranks at MEC, but I likely still will at my LBS. Oh and Sport Mart was epic failure on the Iron Horse side of things... high end bikes do not sell well at a retail level because of, you guessed it...no service. REI sells bikes all right, and so will Mec, consumer level bikes.
You wont get your next SC V10 at Mec anytime soon. Your friendly neighborhood LBS will be where your Interac card hits the counter for that!!
do most people even know what RF product will be sold at MEC? outside of MEC staff most people probably don't. and most MEC staff probably don't unless they look into it. i think gman is correct in saying you won't see any $400 cranks at MEC. guess we'll all just have to wait and see . . .
actually, gman, the products rf will be selling at mec will be their middle to lower end items=made in taiwan, also according to the article rf only employs about 50+ in designing distributing and shipping. It's not like they will be selling anything for dramatically less than lbs either probably 10% less but rf will most likely be giving them products at the manufacturers price and not the distributor's which means more profit for rf AND mec, but lbs will only be given a small discount if they buy direct (meaning higher margin for rf) and still they have to keep the retail within 10% of msrp.
Well wayyyyy to go Race Face. You've just done the unthinkable.
Like the Nazi's united such unlikely bedfellows as Churchill and Stalin, and the "Battle in Seattle" united Environmentalists with Unions; You, Race Face, have just united Fixies with Dh Riders. The hatred displayed on NSMB.com and here on Pinkbike has been trumped only by the usually well thought out and researched hipster crowd on the Fixie forums.
Is this the start of a movement? I don't know. Maybe we need a fearless leader to come up with a uniform, a show of solidarity if you will, with all those that will undoubtedly be effected by Race Face's decision to sell to the Evil Empire. I mean, we don't live in a capitalist free market economy or anything, right?
I propose a Troy Lee Designs skinny jean. This movement has the potential to unite cyclists from all disciplines, the importance of which would not be lost on Troy, so I'm sure he would be ALL OVER IT! Maybe with some cool inter-changeable tearaway racing stripes up the side of the legs?
Oh that's right, Race Face, I just compared you to Nazis all right. NAZIS!
Check out this yellow journalism:
http://onbiking.blogspot.com/2009/10/on-sellouts.html
At least he had the integrity to correct himself in a follow up posting. Maybe some people on this site and others should do a little research before comparing MEC to Walmart etc.. Your stupidity astounds me.
Like the Nazi's united such unlikely bedfellows as Churchill and Stalin, and the "Battle in Seattle" united Environmentalists with Unions; You, Race Face, have just united Fixies with Dh Riders. The hatred displayed on NSMB.com and here on Pinkbike has been trumped only by the usually well thought out and researched hipster crowd on the Fixie forums.
Is this the start of a movement? I don't know. Maybe we need a fearless leader to come up with a uniform, a show of solidarity if you will, with all those that will undoubtedly be effected by Race Face's decision to sell to the Evil Empire. I mean, we don't live in a capitalist free market economy or anything, right?
I propose a Troy Lee Designs skinny jean. This movement has the potential to unite cyclists from all disciplines, the importance of which would not be lost on Troy, so I'm sure he would be ALL OVER IT! Maybe with some cool inter-changeable tearaway racing stripes up the side of the legs?
Oh that's right, Race Face, I just compared you to Nazis all right. NAZIS!
Check out this yellow journalism:
http://onbiking.blogspot.com/2009/10/on-sellouts.html
At least he had the integrity to correct himself in a follow up posting. Maybe some people on this site and others should do a little research before comparing MEC to Walmart etc.. Your stupidity astounds me.
I just got back fro my LBS and they said that Norco has become a distributer for Race Face. So I dunno.
Lol, I paraprase the press release by RF with obvious sarcasm and that's supposed to be impersonating an RF employee? WWC has no love for RF for various reasons long before this announcement.
I've ended up with RF products on my bike and they work well except for the seatpost clamp that sucked, never held the saddle tight. RF products are generally good but dealing with RF is not.
Interesting this deal killed the contract with Lambert. Maybe Norco will take it over but I doubt it with RF selling to MEC. As far as I know Norco eneded its association with the Vancouver Cycling Coalition when they associated themselves with MEC.
Norco did sell to MEC as well years ago but as far as I know they stopped due to pressure form their IBD customers. MEC was also challenging to deal with.
I've ended up with RF products on my bike and they work well except for the seatpost clamp that sucked, never held the saddle tight. RF products are generally good but dealing with RF is not.
Interesting this deal killed the contract with Lambert. Maybe Norco will take it over but I doubt it with RF selling to MEC. As far as I know Norco eneded its association with the Vancouver Cycling Coalition when they associated themselves with MEC.
Norco did sell to MEC as well years ago but as far as I know they stopped due to pressure form their IBD customers. MEC was also challenging to deal with.
i would still rather buy raceface stuff from my lbs and support them instead of supporting a bunch of environmentalists and their organic store
I believe you'll see most of the LBS drop the Race Face line entirely and MEC will be the only retailer of a select part of the product line. It will take time but Race Face will change their distribution channels again...
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Beware of going on the cheap, doing so reduces domestic production and causes outsourcing of jobs which leads to economic downturn and eventual economic collapse. Look at the US right now the made in the usa slogan is falling off the in favor of price cuts. Pretty soon we will all be going to wal-mart to buy our bikes cause the LBS can not compete with large buying power.
Looks like they aren't even selling that much stuff at MEC... a few chainrings, grips, a little armor, and clothes... none of which is even their nice stuff.
This is like when Northface decided to sell at Dicks... its none of their good products...
Doesn't seem like anything to worry about IMHO. I will support race face as much as I did before...
This is like when Northface decided to sell at Dicks... its none of their good products...
Doesn't seem like anything to worry about IMHO. I will support race face as much as I did before...
Wow... raceface is gonna sell chainrings at MEC. Now do people see why this really isn't a big deal? They are definitely not selling out, and it's MEC. MEC is one of the good guys. IMHO.
I own a bike shop and I am not scared off MEC. Bike shops have to evolve and become more competitive. I Am one of the biggest race face dealers in Canada and I will keep buying their product. The fact is IBD should stop complaning about MEC and Internet shops and look at what they are doing and evolve. Competition makes stores better.
Yes -i agree 100% w/ nomade20000 - more and more bike shops i got in now are lame they needs to evolve- I hope this helps lead LBS's into a new outlook on how an LBS should operate.
I love raceface but the VO2 shorts are OUT!!! I bought mediums and they are way too big and the belt loops are spaced way too far apart.
Stick to hardware and armor.
Stick to hardware and armor.
Was it a good idea to announce the products or better yet, was it good to announce the MEC deal? Feeling bad for the RF Marketing guys, they sound defensive. The product never fails and will always provide IBD's proper margin, most importantly, the sell thru, no shop wants parts sitting around taking up dollars and space. The industry microscope- geting smaller every year.
I didn't see anyone mention that fact you have to BUY a memebership (become a co-op memeber) to buy anything at MEC, that's why their retail prices are cheaper than LBS
MEC is a retail co-operative that sells exclusively to members. Lifetime individual memberships are only $5. That's right a whopping $5 
for a lifetime membership.
for a lifetime membership.
My apologies if this has been brought up already, I got tired of reading the same things over and over again. If the buying power is a concern to the LBS why don't they form a buying group so they can buy larger volumes from products they all share, they could form an additional company (like a distribution company) just for purchasing. That is essentially what companies like Lambert are anyway. Audio Video Unlimited kind of did it by going around to smaller specialty AV shops. If LBS would stop fighting and putting down other shops in their area and work together I bet they wouldn't struggle anymore. I know of a couple shops that DO work closely with each other and they both do really, really well. My $0.02.
agreed. I work for an outdoor outfitting shop that has put together a buying group to combat MEC's buying power, and it is working like a charm. It is the one way that smaller...local businesses...of any kind....can compete with large corporate chains and stay in business. Necessity is the mother of invention...Stiff competition makes us all work harder, and strive for new and unique solutions.
Certain areas have an excess of supply of LBS, I not suprised some are struggling. In addition, some are managed quite badly and must have poor business models - I have had some very discouraging experiences in some shops, just not professional. And saying that RaceFace is hurting already struggling LBS - oh no, why don't we set a regulatory organization to inhibit this type of free market activity. Come on, I think that the professional, well run bike shops will do fine, but others won't.
I use MEC sometimes, order-online and use LBS, but I just can't afford to buy all my stuff from a LBS. You should do most of your service yourself anyway. Some mechs are awesome but some, from my personal experience, some just don't give a Sh8t, or don't have a clue. Sorry for the rant.
I use MEC sometimes, order-online and use LBS, but I just can't afford to buy all my stuff from a LBS. You should do most of your service yourself anyway. Some mechs are awesome but some, from my personal experience, some just don't give a Sh8t, or don't have a clue. Sorry for the rant.
One of the bitter pills to swallow here is the fact that We as Canadians always pay more for just about any product compared to our southern neighbours. Now I know that this does not relate directly to the current argument of the of MEC vs RF but that is what LBS are saying that they well under sell them in the product range. LBS need to be ranting and raving at their distrubitors as well because I don't understand why I am paying close to double on so many products as far as I can see just because I live north of the boarder. yes I am talking about online stores but I find it amazing that I can order products online ship to a different country (mine) pay duties and taxes at the border and shipping costs and still keep money in my pocket then if I had gone local. At what point I am suppose to say yes sir please take my money it makes me feel better. ( think of those bank fee commercials) MEC will not be the death of LBS, but their own distributors and you better hope the dollar drops. Before someone drops the old what will you do when you need something fixed and there is no LBS, except for suspension (which gets shipped to repair centers anyway...i know how to use the post office and can send it) what other service are you offering that is so special and complicated.
so true i put my bikes together from online retailers cost half of what it would of cost from a LBS.... i do all my own work on my bikes after spending a bit of of money on specialty tools.... monkeys! can work on bikes,,, i have seen them
Distributors having nothing to do with why a product may cost about 10-15% more in the US. It is the economies of scale present here, face it we live is a very small country population wise, with huge geographical ranges. Therefore when a distributor buys in Canada from lets say shimano, do you beleive they have the same purchasing power as a US distributor? as scales increase the cost per unit drops, its 1st yr economics and because our scales are small our cost per unit remain higher than a larger scale economy like the US.
As for products you're finding at pricepoint.com or wherever, these aren't always purchased through proper channels, they are buying on the grey market (from taiwan manufacturers, bike companies in US that overbuy parts, etc) or end of model year clearouts. You will likely NEVER find a product that is current at a bike shop in the US that is more than 10-15% cheaper, the MSRP's put out by the likes of SRAM, Trek, Mavic whomever all reflect that small difference in pricing.
All that said if you choose to buy online so be it, its a free market, just don't expect a CDN distributor to warranty your product if/when it breaks. Or when you can't install that "new" 2008 chris king orange headset, expect to pay the full $45/hr shop rate and don't complain about it.
As for products you're finding at pricepoint.com or wherever, these aren't always purchased through proper channels, they are buying on the grey market (from taiwan manufacturers, bike companies in US that overbuy parts, etc) or end of model year clearouts. You will likely NEVER find a product that is current at a bike shop in the US that is more than 10-15% cheaper, the MSRP's put out by the likes of SRAM, Trek, Mavic whomever all reflect that small difference in pricing.
All that said if you choose to buy online so be it, its a free market, just don't expect a CDN distributor to warranty your product if/when it breaks. Or when you can't install that "new" 2008 chris king orange headset, expect to pay the full $45/hr shop rate and don't complain about it.
What do i care if a company buys a product on the gray market and then past the savings on to me. If Sram still made it I am still happy or who ever.
why is it that everyone knows of these "grey markets" yet bike shops themselves will not purchase from them to offer there own discounts to their customers. I mean If I can do it why not you. loyality to your Distributor who just dropped Race Face (lol)
who cares if its last years part, hope my 08 990 cassette looks as good as your 09 990 cassette..oh wait they are the same.
if this online is so bad why do sram, rockshox, mavic, Marazocchi, race face, Fsa, e 13, Crank bros, azzonic , wtb, kenda, maxxis and the list goes on and on not care that its there for everyone to buy, if this grey market is so bad.
for a one time cash drop I can buy my own headset intall tool, doesn't need to be park becasue I won't use it but twice a year and I can install headsets for life, plus help friends or kids in the neighbour hood who can keep their 45/hr and buy some damn parts with it.
and where did you see these "new" orange chris king headsets at, because that would be sweet.
why is it that everyone knows of these "grey markets" yet bike shops themselves will not purchase from them to offer there own discounts to their customers. I mean If I can do it why not you. loyality to your Distributor who just dropped Race Face (lol)
who cares if its last years part, hope my 08 990 cassette looks as good as your 09 990 cassette..oh wait they are the same.
if this online is so bad why do sram, rockshox, mavic, Marazocchi, race face, Fsa, e 13, Crank bros, azzonic , wtb, kenda, maxxis and the list goes on and on not care that its there for everyone to buy, if this grey market is so bad.
for a one time cash drop I can buy my own headset intall tool, doesn't need to be park becasue I won't use it but twice a year and I can install headsets for life, plus help friends or kids in the neighbour hood who can keep their 45/hr and buy some damn parts with it.
and where did you see these "new" orange chris king headsets at, because that would be sweet.
and why wouldn't a products warrenty be covered if it still falls within the warrenties time line. I bought my truck in the states and Ford dosen't care.
If an american moves to Canada do you point and laugh and tell him his warrenty is no good because its not from a Canadain distrubitor. stop selling BS everyone else is giving it away.
If an american moves to Canada do you point and laugh and tell him his warrenty is no good because its not from a Canadain distrubitor. stop selling BS everyone else is giving it away.
this isn't ford, its a small industry trying to make a dollar and provide consumers with product when they want it at a fair price, so if you have taken time to go around the regular channels of business to save a buck, the CDN distributor is NOT responsible to warranty your US purchased product, however if a 1 in 10000 legitimate claim of a guy from us moving to canada comes up i'm sure it can be handled
nobody said online was bad, just make sure you know what your getting, which is essentially a great price with virtually no aftersales service, caveat emptora
its obvious you don't think about where anything you buy comes from or how its made, price is your only concern, enjoy shopping at Walmart and keepin that child labour going!
and please don't patronize us with your philanthropy of being the "fairy headset presser of port alberni"
nobody said online was bad, just make sure you know what your getting, which is essentially a great price with virtually no aftersales service, caveat emptora
its obvious you don't think about where anything you buy comes from or how its made, price is your only concern, enjoy shopping at Walmart and keepin that child labour going!
and please don't patronize us with your philanthropy of being the "fairy headset presser of port alberni"
Wow what are you the regional rep for...
let me guess you only shop at local farmer markets you band all big box stores and you only watch indie films and you other bike is a fixie
12 dollars at the hardware store and you can make a headset press with a few washers 1/4 thread bar and a some plumbing fixtures, same hardeware store a pipe and a hacksaw and you can make headset remover
don't hate walmart they will help community events and clubs if you ask, like the one I run to introduce children 11-14 into moutian biking or the one my co worker runs that teaches those same kids how to fix bikes including donated rigs that are recycled and given to youth who can't afford their own. yes I watch my dollars and how I spend them why is that a bad thing.
you shouldn't make a debate personal with attacks on an individual becuase you don't agree with an opinion or a fact.
let me guess you only shop at local farmer markets you band all big box stores and you only watch indie films and you other bike is a fixie
12 dollars at the hardware store and you can make a headset press with a few washers 1/4 thread bar and a some plumbing fixtures, same hardeware store a pipe and a hacksaw and you can make headset remover
don't hate walmart they will help community events and clubs if you ask, like the one I run to introduce children 11-14 into moutian biking or the one my co worker runs that teaches those same kids how to fix bikes including donated rigs that are recycled and given to youth who can't afford their own. yes I watch my dollars and how I spend them why is that a bad thing.
you shouldn't make a debate personal with attacks on an individual becuase you don't agree with an opinion or a fact.
well out here in "port alberni" we no how to ride and fix bikes... i help any and everyone into bikes... for free... never had a problem with any online retailer and cant blame us if we are smart enough to get a deal... i will still be here fixin peoples bike for free long after the LBS have gone out of business.... but that wont happen... LBS will always be with us because lots of people are not as smart as monkeys!!! if you ride you should no how to work on your bike or a least be willing to learn
As a consumer, I will buy from where I can get the best price/ service. At MEC, I know it's going to be priced better than my lbs, they are much better with returns, and they keep better hours. PS, what are some of the better sites for online bike parts purchases?
I've order from the states: http://www.jensonusa.com/ http://www.beyondbikes.com/
Some products are substantially cheaper than here. And if customs is to busy to check your package u won't pay duty.
Some products are substantially cheaper than here. And if customs is to busy to check your package u won't pay duty.
Cambirabike and pricepoint offer good options as well.
if you are not in a hurry ask if they will ship U.S Postal sevice ground post, you will wait two weeks to get your stuff but you will not pay a brokerage fee like you do when they ship DHL or UPS thats a 30 - 40 dollar savings depending on the total value of your package.
if you are not in a hurry ask if they will ship U.S Postal sevice ground post, you will wait two weeks to get your stuff but you will not pay a brokerage fee like you do when they ship DHL or UPS thats a 30 - 40 dollar savings depending on the total value of your package.
Monkey's eh? If you can put together your own bikes and never need the assistance of a local bike shop then I guess there's nothing wrong with shopping wherever you like. In reality the modern mountain bike, in all its glory, is a fairly technical machine that has lots of compatibility, and unfortunately, warranty issues. Your LBS is there for you when you need it: whether it means getting an RA and shipping your Totem fork, selling you a tube when you're out, giving you trail info, straightening your hangar last minute while your buddies wait in the truck, suggesting what chainguide would work best for your rig, or (let's not forget) spending 100's of thousands of dollars putting bikes on the floor for you to ogle, demo, feel, fall in love with etc. So before you size yourself on your new ride at an LBS and then turn around and buy it from Jenson or Pricepoint, imagine what it would be like without your 'brick and mortar' around the corner.
I am not against LBS or think that there is no need for them but the reallity of this MEC Vs Rf is the concern of lower prices. If a customer is a loyal chances are they remain, but I would expect it is unrealistic to ask people to pay more when the option is there not to.
Btw sending a fork off is no big deal, a crecent wrench will straigten a hanger, a patch will fix an old tube while I wait for my ten for ten dollars tubes and every manifacture out there will tell you if their chainguide will fit your rig...its not hard to ask questions.
it is defeninatly nice having a dealership to buy or shop for bikes from if they stock what you are looking for, but how many people have heard "we don't have it now but I can order it for you." I am not complaing about shops but rather the price I am expected to pay simply becasue being Canadian means paying more for the same product when there is only a 7 cent difference on the dollar. its not right...
btw if you own a car do you have it serviced by that car manifactures dealer or do you shop around for the best price?
Btw sending a fork off is no big deal, a crecent wrench will straigten a hanger, a patch will fix an old tube while I wait for my ten for ten dollars tubes and every manifacture out there will tell you if their chainguide will fit your rig...its not hard to ask questions.
it is defeninatly nice having a dealership to buy or shop for bikes from if they stock what you are looking for, but how many people have heard "we don't have it now but I can order it for you." I am not complaing about shops but rather the price I am expected to pay simply becasue being Canadian means paying more for the same product when there is only a 7 cent difference on the dollar. its not right...
btw if you own a car do you have it serviced by that car manifactures dealer or do you shop around for the best price?
stinkto u took the words out of my mouth! i support both the bike shops in town as much as possible.... both the owners are good guys and they have never cared were i get my parts.. and i still buy random parts from them even tho i know i can get it cheaper online
More fuel for the fire. I think that quite a few people here are being quite hypocritical. Imagine you are just a consumer, not a shop owner or employee, and consider the following:
1. Where do you buy your groceries?
2. Where do you buy your electronics?
3. What restaurants do you go to?
4. What country are clothes made in?
5. Have you ever purchased anything online?
6. Do you really think all businesses, even poorly designed and operated ones should survive?
7. Do you really think that I should spend 1500 on a TV when I can get the same one for 1000?
You should know that I will continue supporting my LBS by purchasing bikes, and getting service done. I choose to do so, because they are very good at what they do. They are knowledgeable, and are only interested in what is right for me, not their quota. They also offer a lot of great things to the biking community in my area. For example, they sponsor trail days with food, drinks and shwag. They are involved in some of the DH racing circuit. So, I obviously don't want to see my LBS "die". But I don't think they will for all the reasons above, and the many others who feel the same.
1. Where do you buy your groceries?
2. Where do you buy your electronics?
3. What restaurants do you go to?
4. What country are clothes made in?
5. Have you ever purchased anything online?
6. Do you really think all businesses, even poorly designed and operated ones should survive?
7. Do you really think that I should spend 1500 on a TV when I can get the same one for 1000?
You should know that I will continue supporting my LBS by purchasing bikes, and getting service done. I choose to do so, because they are very good at what they do. They are knowledgeable, and are only interested in what is right for me, not their quota. They also offer a lot of great things to the biking community in my area. For example, they sponsor trail days with food, drinks and shwag. They are involved in some of the DH racing circuit. So, I obviously don't want to see my LBS "die". But I don't think they will for all the reasons above, and the many others who feel the same.
Good questions and good points about your LBS, again and I am in no way anit-LBS but I am making the arguement about parts and the cost there of. I also support my LBS all three of my current bikes are from the same one and 5 out of six of them have been purchased there.
LBS owners will need to find a way to keep their customers, for some money is no object and being able to drop off a bike and not care about the cash is worth the convience, for others it is ignorance (I don't mean that disrespecfully just a lack of knowledge)single mom 13 yo son, and others still it will be for community involvment. Some will be go for the towns cool factor if you live in a small town where there are small town politics you know what I am saying, but Vancover is not immune eihter..think Cove or On top or Steed (not saying there bad far from it) but people will go there for the popular vote. In the end it is your money and there should be options for it.
LBS owners will need to find a way to keep their customers, for some money is no object and being able to drop off a bike and not care about the cash is worth the convience, for others it is ignorance (I don't mean that disrespecfully just a lack of knowledge)single mom 13 yo son, and others still it will be for community involvment. Some will be go for the towns cool factor if you live in a small town where there are small town politics you know what I am saying, but Vancover is not immune eihter..think Cove or On top or Steed (not saying there bad far from it) but people will go there for the popular vote. In the end it is your money and there should be options for it.
When it comes to parts, online all the way. I have both the tools and knowhow to install a crankset thank you very much. If the LBS want's my business for parts, it is their responsibility to make me want to buy parts from them. Be creative, change, and do something other than bitch and moan about unfair advantages. If you really think this deals unfair, I thinks it's unfair to pay 2-3 times more at your store than necessary.
I think that the way that everyone is pointing the finger at RF for being the reaper for the Canadian LBS is completely unfair, and mislead. Why not Lambert? They were the ones making tons of money over the past few years. Why not complain about their mark-ups then? After all, their profits go in their pocket. Not like MEC, whose income goes to reducing cost for the consumer, trailbuilding, environmental stuardship and so on. Don't you want these things?
Also, if you really feel that the LBS is endagered species. It won't be because of this RF MEC deal. It will be because products from absolutely every manufacturer can be purchased online for a lower price than at an LBS. Which is ultimately what consumers want. If they didn't want it, it wouldn't be this way.
I think that the way that everyone is pointing the finger at RF for being the reaper for the Canadian LBS is completely unfair, and mislead. Why not Lambert? They were the ones making tons of money over the past few years. Why not complain about their mark-ups then? After all, their profits go in their pocket. Not like MEC, whose income goes to reducing cost for the consumer, trailbuilding, environmental stuardship and so on. Don't you want these things?
Also, if you really feel that the LBS is endagered species. It won't be because of this RF MEC deal. It will be because products from absolutely every manufacturer can be purchased online for a lower price than at an LBS. Which is ultimately what consumers want. If they didn't want it, it wouldn't be this way.
Tons of money?? You obviously don't work any form of the bike industry. Lbs, distributor, manufacturer, it does not matter - most of us not getting rich doing this. We do it because we love it. How many of your "online" or coop's sponsor races, local trail building, and will do a last minute repair when there closed just so you can ride? Your local shop does not, I repeat: Does not set pricing for goods. We have to buy them just like you, but we buy them a year in advance. So when the us dollar spikes one week, I still had to pay x amount for the product a year ago so the price stays the same. I hope you don't have any warranty issues soon, because good luck when there is no lbs to fight for you. As far as Raceface is concerned I wonder if costco will on there list next if they determine that will help distribution.
bmannn, I don't suppose you read both my comments above.
I support my LBS, they do great things and I will continue buy bikes there and get service done. I also highly doubt that they will be going out of business anytime soon. If they do evenually, it won't be bacuause MEC sell low end RF gear.
I also never said that the shops sets the prices. The manufacturer and distributor does.
Speaking of prices, to the best of my knowledge the "level tax" that the LBS will be getting from RF hasn't even been made public yet. So how can anyone say what the difference in margins will be?
I also like how you say "most of us not getting rich doing this", then who is? The manufacturer or distributor? You also can't say that the distributor is not in it for the money. Something to think about is that Barrett Corporation is the majority shareholder in Lambert Cycles. The former majority shareholder, now minority shareholder, is Roynat Capital who is a member of ScotiaBank Group. That's right a bank, and another corporation control Lambert Cycles. Hmmm... Sounds likes there must be money to be made. I think that there is definitely some substantial profit involved in purchasing a large quantity directly from the manufacturer at a low cost, and then reselling to all the IBS at a markup.
Me not working in any form of the bike industry does not make any of my points invalid. If anything it makes them unbiased.
Like cree said below, what about "SRAM, Shimano, Wellgo, Garmin, Jagwire, Kenda, Maxxis, Schwalbe..." being sold at MEC. Sounds like "legitimate" manufacturers are going out of style hey?
Until the LBS, manufacturers and distributors can get Canadian customers good prices on parts/gear from our LBS, the majority of the population will look elsewhere for deals. Ideally, we would all go to out LBS becuase we prefer them, get those great prices that we see online and in the US, but we don't.
I support my LBS, they do great things and I will continue buy bikes there and get service done. I also highly doubt that they will be going out of business anytime soon. If they do evenually, it won't be bacuause MEC sell low end RF gear.
I also never said that the shops sets the prices. The manufacturer and distributor does.
Speaking of prices, to the best of my knowledge the "level tax" that the LBS will be getting from RF hasn't even been made public yet. So how can anyone say what the difference in margins will be?
I also like how you say "most of us not getting rich doing this", then who is? The manufacturer or distributor? You also can't say that the distributor is not in it for the money. Something to think about is that Barrett Corporation is the majority shareholder in Lambert Cycles. The former majority shareholder, now minority shareholder, is Roynat Capital who is a member of ScotiaBank Group. That's right a bank, and another corporation control Lambert Cycles. Hmmm... Sounds likes there must be money to be made. I think that there is definitely some substantial profit involved in purchasing a large quantity directly from the manufacturer at a low cost, and then reselling to all the IBS at a markup.
Me not working in any form of the bike industry does not make any of my points invalid. If anything it makes them unbiased.
Like cree said below, what about "SRAM, Shimano, Wellgo, Garmin, Jagwire, Kenda, Maxxis, Schwalbe..." being sold at MEC. Sounds like "legitimate" manufacturers are going out of style hey?
Until the LBS, manufacturers and distributors can get Canadian customers good prices on parts/gear from our LBS, the majority of the population will look elsewhere for deals. Ideally, we would all go to out LBS becuase we prefer them, get those great prices that we see online and in the US, but we don't.
I suppose that Lambert will be sending out a similar termination notice to the following suppliers who also are being sold at MEC; SRAM, Shimano, Wellgo, Garmin, Jagwire, Kenda, Maxxis, Schwalbe...
MEC doesn't buy anything from a single canadian supplier. They refuse to sell to them. What they do is go back door through grey market channels.
Wrong. It's not grey market. They buy from US distributors. You don't think Shimano could tell a specific US distributor not to sell to MEC? Of course they could. They just don't care. Bottom line is anything in MEC could be stopped by the supplier. Shimano/SRAM etc know their products are in MEC, but because it's not the CDN distributor selling it, they don't care. It's a backdoor way other companies can get into MEC without dealing with the politics. Also, have you had a look at the MEC bikes? Pretty sure the parts on them were probably bought direct from the manufacturers...
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